1 00:00:01,130 --> 00:00:15,670 [Music] 2 00:00:21,380 --> 00:00:18,769 well I was at the Air Force armament 3 00:00:24,319 --> 00:00:21,390 center at Eglin Air Force Base after 4 00:00:32,450 --> 00:00:24,329 having gotten out of the Air Force and a 5 00:00:34,960 --> 00:00:32,460 colleague of mine was coming up in 1957 6 00:00:39,200 --> 00:00:34,970 they were going to be hiring people of 7 00:00:42,950 --> 00:00:39,210 starting ABMA and he asked me he wanted 8 00:00:46,160 --> 00:00:42,960 to take my 457 with him and I said no 9 00:00:48,680 --> 00:00:46,170 and I'm happy where I am at the r-mo 10 00:00:51,530 --> 00:00:48,690 Center I'm not worried let me take it so 11 00:00:55,609 --> 00:00:51,540 he did and about three days later I got 12 00:00:58,160 --> 00:00:55,619 a call from a girl in first now and she 13 00:00:59,840 --> 00:00:58,170 says would you be available to come up 14 00:01:02,810 --> 00:00:59,850 for an interview one of the Germans 15 00:01:04,969 --> 00:01:02,820 would like to speak with you and I said 16 00:01:07,310 --> 00:01:04,979 well I said I've never been the 17 00:01:09,740 --> 00:01:07,320 Huntsville and I said I don't want to 18 00:01:13,160 --> 00:01:09,750 sound you know Silva says I think that 19 00:01:16,310 --> 00:01:13,170 we take care of the travel expenses and 20 00:01:19,640 --> 00:01:16,320 everything Oh anything you need whatever 21 00:01:21,050 --> 00:01:19,650 you require we'll take care of it German 22 00:01:24,020 --> 00:01:21,060 that wanted to speak with me with 23 00:01:26,540 --> 00:01:24,030 Gerhardt rice each okay done Tracy about 24 00:01:29,300 --> 00:01:26,550 three days later I got a call from that 25 00:01:30,800 --> 00:01:29,310 same girl in personnel and she says dr. 26 00:01:34,640 --> 00:01:30,810 Isaacs would like to know when you'd be 27 00:01:37,070 --> 00:01:34,650 available to come up and join him I said 28 00:01:40,679 --> 00:01:37,080 well it's gonna be about a month I've 29 00:01:44,700 --> 00:01:42,030 there's more than burning any bridges 30 00:01:47,190 --> 00:01:44,710 behind me to be honest with you so she 31 00:01:50,539 --> 00:01:47,200 said he said that'll be just fine so 32 00:01:55,980 --> 00:01:50,549 that's how I ended up coming up on 33 00:01:58,560 --> 00:01:55,990 January the 31st of 1958 and that's the 34 00:02:01,230 --> 00:01:58,570 day Explorer one went into orbit by the 35 00:02:04,529 --> 00:02:01,240 way I found out later why he was 36 00:02:06,480 --> 00:02:04,539 interested in me joining him Gerhart had 37 00:02:08,809 --> 00:02:06,490 been trying to get some stuff done at 38 00:02:12,780 --> 00:02:08,819 the Cape at the range down there 39 00:02:14,729 --> 00:02:12,790 actually to fire some small rockets is 40 00:02:17,400 --> 00:02:14,739 what he was doing there they were 41 00:02:20,040 --> 00:02:17,410 already working on the Saturn before it 42 00:02:23,550 --> 00:02:20,050 became the Saturn and this was to get 43 00:02:26,550 --> 00:02:23,560 some wind shear and many conditions up 44 00:02:30,360 --> 00:02:26,560 at stage separation on the second stage 45 00:02:33,809 --> 00:02:30,370 and the third stage at that level and he 46 00:02:35,970 --> 00:02:33,819 was having difficulty communicating they 47 00:02:39,539 --> 00:02:35,980 didn't understand him and he did not 48 00:02:41,960 --> 00:02:39,549 understand them and he figured because I 49 00:02:44,610 --> 00:02:41,970 was coming from an Air Force range I 50 00:02:47,970 --> 00:02:44,620 would know how another Air Force range 51 00:02:49,530 --> 00:02:47,980 operated and fundamentally he was 52 00:02:51,720 --> 00:02:49,540 correct I didn't know how a range 53 00:02:55,620 --> 00:02:51,730 operated that spend time with it 54 00:03:00,300 --> 00:02:55,630 the army was too prevalent that to keep 55 00:03:02,190 --> 00:03:00,310 a good bit and the lead engineer for 56 00:03:05,960 --> 00:03:02,200 what I was trying to do with his rockets 57 00:03:09,900 --> 00:03:05,970 in there everything guess who it was 58 00:03:13,020 --> 00:03:09,910 Rocco patron he was a major in the Army 59 00:03:13,949 --> 00:03:13,030 at the time and he and I got to know 60 00:03:15,960 --> 00:03:13,959 each other very well 61 00:03:18,479 --> 00:03:15,970 matter of fact I got along fine with him 62 00:03:21,120 --> 00:03:18,489 too as a matter of fact that was how I 63 00:03:26,640 --> 00:03:21,130 got started and I collected a good bit 64 00:03:30,180 --> 00:03:26,650 of data the division that Garrett ricing 65 00:03:31,770 --> 00:03:30,190 had had the responsibility for all of 66 00:03:34,560 --> 00:03:31,780 the environmental and design 67 00:03:36,360 --> 00:03:34,570 requirements that went into as a matter 68 00:03:41,250 --> 00:03:36,370 of fact the Jupiter the Redstone and 69 00:03:45,930 --> 00:03:41,260 also into the became the Saturn and a 70 00:03:48,390 --> 00:03:45,940 lot of other activities JSC well we 71 00:03:50,610 --> 00:03:48,400 formed Marshall in 1960 okay 72 00:03:52,530 --> 00:03:50,620 and when we were working the Saturn and 73 00:03:53,270 --> 00:03:52,540 everything all the all the 74 00:03:55,670 --> 00:03:53,280 environmentalist 75 00:03:57,650 --> 00:03:55,680 requirements came out of my division so 76 00:03:59,900 --> 00:03:57,660 when we moved over from the Army you did 77 00:04:02,570 --> 00:03:59,910 not have to move you could stay if you 78 00:04:04,760 --> 00:04:02,580 had a position over there well they 79 00:04:07,370 --> 00:04:04,770 offered Gerhardt a lab director's 80 00:04:09,790 --> 00:04:07,380 position if he stayed so it didn't take 81 00:04:12,610 --> 00:04:09,800 Gerhardt long to make up his mind and 82 00:04:16,460 --> 00:04:12,620 about two months after we had moved over 83 00:04:19,190 --> 00:04:16,470 Ernest Geisler was a lab director and he 84 00:04:20,930 --> 00:04:19,200 called me and said the only I'd like to 85 00:04:23,990 --> 00:04:20,940 be that the Germans tend to pronounce 86 00:04:25,520 --> 00:04:24,000 bill Beale had had a ring to it anyway 87 00:04:27,740 --> 00:04:25,530 he said I'd like for you to take the 88 00:04:29,810 --> 00:04:27,750 division and I said well dr. geyser will 89 00:04:32,090 --> 00:04:29,820 give it a try and see how it works out 90 00:04:33,710 --> 00:04:32,100 and you know if it works out and it 91 00:04:39,589 --> 00:04:33,720 worked out well we got along fine 92 00:04:44,299 --> 00:04:42,200 oh I didn't give it any consideration as 93 00:04:46,010 --> 00:04:44,309 being something difficult to do it was 94 00:04:49,119 --> 00:04:46,020 just something that we were going to do 95 00:04:53,359 --> 00:04:49,129 but that was the attitude 96 00:04:55,399 --> 00:04:53,369 there wasn't an attitude and and and the 97 00:04:57,290 --> 00:04:55,409 Germans didn't create that attitude that 98 00:05:00,619 --> 00:04:57,300 we couldn't do it it was just a matter 99 00:05:03,219 --> 00:05:00,629 of doing it and you got to remember that 100 00:05:06,969 --> 00:05:03,229 we were already working on the Saturn 101 00:05:09,679 --> 00:05:06,979 before we transferred over from the Army 102 00:05:11,239 --> 00:05:09,689 our time got charged to the Persian 103 00:05:14,239 --> 00:05:11,249 rocket system but that's beside the 104 00:05:16,779 --> 00:05:14,249 point the Persian worked out fine too by 105 00:05:18,709 --> 00:05:16,789 the way but there was no charge code for 106 00:05:21,199 --> 00:05:18,719 Saturday wouldn t mind whether they had 107 00:05:25,999 --> 00:05:21,209 a name or not but then but anyway moving 108 00:05:28,010 --> 00:05:26,009 over there was a strong feeling of 109 00:05:30,409 --> 00:05:28,020 confidence to be quite candid with you 110 00:05:32,989 --> 00:05:30,419 now everybody took it serious when Braun 111 00:05:34,820 --> 00:05:32,999 had a real talent for getting people to 112 00:05:37,040 --> 00:05:34,830 feel like they were a part of a team and 113 00:05:40,070 --> 00:05:37,050 working together von Braun created an 114 00:05:43,189 --> 00:05:40,080 atmosphere that the Saturn 5 was our 115 00:05:45,949 --> 00:05:43,199 vehicle when somebody else's and people 116 00:05:48,559 --> 00:05:45,959 worked on it accordingly couple of years 117 00:05:50,540 --> 00:05:48,569 or something into the system that we got 118 00:05:53,359 --> 00:05:50,550 those of us that had the vision got a 119 00:05:56,209 --> 00:05:53,369 memorandum from personnel we were to 120 00:05:58,249 --> 00:05:56,219 instruct our people that they needed to 121 00:06:00,379 --> 00:05:58,259 go home at the regular hour because 122 00:06:02,259 --> 00:06:00,389 there was not funding to cover salaries 123 00:06:04,579 --> 00:06:02,269 and all that stuff well they weren't 124 00:06:06,879 --> 00:06:04,589 people were staying over time and 125 00:06:09,619 --> 00:06:06,889 working they weren't getting paid for it 126 00:06:11,629 --> 00:06:09,629 it was because they were going to build 127 00:06:15,309 --> 00:06:11,639 their vehicle to make sure it worked ok 128 00:06:18,980 --> 00:06:15,319 but ever needed to be done got done well 129 00:06:20,989 --> 00:06:18,990 it continued to you you had to make had 130 00:06:23,389 --> 00:06:20,999 to not make but you had to encourage 131 00:06:26,899 --> 00:06:23,399 people to go home that's the gospel 132 00:06:30,489 --> 00:06:26,909 truth of it and one of my branch chief 133 00:06:34,249 --> 00:06:30,499 met me in the grocery store one day and 134 00:06:36,759 --> 00:06:34,259 she says Bilson I need you to speak with 135 00:06:39,230 --> 00:06:36,769 Orville he was one of my branch Chiefs I 136 00:06:41,329 --> 00:06:39,240 got a problem well I thought maybe he 137 00:06:42,980 --> 00:06:41,339 was out in the car out there or 138 00:06:47,059 --> 00:06:42,990 something and he'd hurt himself or 139 00:06:48,709 --> 00:06:47,069 whatnot and I said well Anna what is it 140 00:06:50,930 --> 00:06:48,719 that I can do I'll be glad to help you 141 00:06:54,440 --> 00:06:50,940 if I can she said you have to 142 00:06:55,940 --> 00:06:54,450 do something said he wakes up at two and 143 00:06:58,780 --> 00:06:55,950 three o'clock in the morning and starts 144 00:07:01,400 --> 00:06:58,790 working and I can't get him back to bed 145 00:07:04,250 --> 00:07:01,410 now that's the kind of a work attitude 146 00:07:08,150 --> 00:07:04,260 that existed at Marshall Space Flight 147 00:07:10,190 --> 00:07:08,160 Center in the in the 60s on the satyr 148 00:07:14,900 --> 00:07:10,200 vehicle and that's why we never lost a 149 00:07:23,309 --> 00:07:18,809 if they impacted it I never knew it 150 00:07:26,249 --> 00:07:23,319 we never got in both I didn't and I 151 00:07:29,040 --> 00:07:26,259 don't know anybody else in the involved 152 00:07:31,619 --> 00:07:29,050 in what was going on downtown Huntsville 153 00:07:34,200 --> 00:07:31,629 for example or in in Alabama you saw it 154 00:07:36,300 --> 00:07:34,210 in the paper and all this okay but 155 00:07:38,820 --> 00:07:36,310 things were a little bit different too 156 00:07:42,770 --> 00:07:38,830 and in the personnel area okay they were 157 00:07:46,800 --> 00:07:42,780 making inroads to work with Alabama A&M 158 00:07:51,149 --> 00:07:46,810 to bring them you know involved but that 159 00:07:53,930 --> 00:07:51,159 wasn't very easy to do because the they 160 00:07:57,589 --> 00:07:53,940 did they didn't have the the background 161 00:08:00,990 --> 00:07:57,599 technical background see at that time 162 00:08:05,550 --> 00:08:01,000 Donna they they got it very rapidly okay 163 00:08:08,580 --> 00:08:05,560 and as time went by they didn't have any 164 00:08:13,760 --> 00:08:08,590 engineering as I remember capability in 165 00:08:16,830 --> 00:08:13,770 class work at A&M they were agricultural 166 00:08:19,879 --> 00:08:16,840 oriented as a matter of fact and in that 167 00:08:26,700 --> 00:08:19,889 area and educate they had an education 168 00:08:32,159 --> 00:08:28,469 a lot of the environmental requirements 169 00:08:35,730 --> 00:08:32,169 that went into the Saturn I went to the 170 00:08:40,700 --> 00:08:35,740 Rockies Jenna were not the same type 171 00:08:43,290 --> 00:08:40,710 that will not based on aircraft ok 172 00:08:43,980 --> 00:08:43,300 mainly because their craft didn't go 173 00:08:46,590 --> 00:08:43,990 vertically 174 00:08:48,060 --> 00:08:46,600 they went horizontally now we picked up 175 00:08:51,269 --> 00:08:48,070 some of the turbulence and in the 176 00:08:53,670 --> 00:08:51,279 dynamics there but we made some of the 177 00:08:55,650 --> 00:08:53,680 very first measurements and then I'm has 178 00:08:57,690 --> 00:08:55,660 a lot of free agency I had a lot of free 179 00:08:59,490 --> 00:08:57,700 agents let's put that way and dealing 180 00:09:00,420 --> 00:08:59,500 with headquarters on getting support too 181 00:09:03,389 --> 00:09:00,430 for that matter 182 00:09:04,380 --> 00:09:03,399 and because we needed the data and it 183 00:09:08,400 --> 00:09:04,390 didn't exist 184 00:09:11,579 --> 00:09:08,410 for example the up to the mountain 185 00:09:13,920 --> 00:09:11,589 I don't know typically around about 25 186 00:09:16,769 --> 00:09:13,930 kilometers or so it's about as high as 187 00:09:19,620 --> 00:09:16,779 you had any structure on the atmosphere 188 00:09:23,220 --> 00:09:19,630 from the balloon sounding we needed it 189 00:09:25,769 --> 00:09:23,230 higher than that so we built rockets and 190 00:09:28,800 --> 00:09:25,779 we fired them higher than that okay up 191 00:09:30,210 --> 00:09:28,810 to get stage separation and on up group 192 00:09:34,320 --> 00:09:30,220 shot all the way up to about a hundred 193 00:09:37,740 --> 00:09:34,330 kilometers and we got some of the first 194 00:09:39,420 --> 00:09:37,750 data that was ever required and we 195 00:09:40,440 --> 00:09:39,430 published it as a matter of fact and 196 00:09:43,730 --> 00:09:40,450 then the literature 197 00:09:47,070 --> 00:09:43,740 alrighty we had four I think it wasn't 198 00:09:50,070 --> 00:09:47,080 nike tomahawk rockets that's two-stage 199 00:09:54,720 --> 00:09:50,080 rocket as a matter of fact and we had 200 00:09:57,269 --> 00:09:54,730 had little or no information on the time 201 00:09:58,949 --> 00:09:57,279 to change of the wind structure or 202 00:10:02,280 --> 00:09:58,959 anything else up there over a short 203 00:10:04,170 --> 00:10:02,290 period of time so we took all four of 204 00:10:08,519 --> 00:10:04,180 those as form I believe may have been 205 00:10:11,670 --> 00:10:08,529 five but anyway we took of all and fired 206 00:10:15,449 --> 00:10:11,680 them at Wallops Island and a 24 hour 207 00:10:18,420 --> 00:10:15,459 period I did not have to go ask 208 00:10:20,220 --> 00:10:18,430 anybody's permission to do it but things 209 00:10:24,000 --> 00:10:20,230 were different back then and isn't that 210 00:10:26,010 --> 00:10:24,010 one just me okay a lot of the other 211 00:10:28,889 --> 00:10:26,020 decisions were you know made right there 212 00:10:32,639 --> 00:10:28,899 and by the people that were responsible 213 00:10:33,870 --> 00:10:32,649 I mean Tom made his air dynamic what 214 00:10:36,150 --> 00:10:33,880 they did in the wind clothes and all 215 00:10:37,800 --> 00:10:36,160 kinds of stuff he didn't have to go get 216 00:10:39,500 --> 00:10:37,810 it cleared by somebody he was 217 00:10:41,870 --> 00:10:39,510 responsible for it and 218 00:10:43,699 --> 00:10:41,880 and we didn't have any yard and that 219 00:10:45,860 --> 00:10:43,709 problems either for that matter but 220 00:10:49,300 --> 00:10:45,870 there was a lot of apprehension because 221 00:10:52,400 --> 00:10:49,310 it was something new for one thing 222 00:10:55,970 --> 00:10:52,410 you've got to remember we built the 223 00:11:01,189 --> 00:10:55,980 Saturn one then we built the Saturn 1b 224 00:11:05,030 --> 00:11:01,199 and then the Saturn 5 so what we learned 225 00:11:07,040 --> 00:11:05,040 on the one we transferred to the 1b and 226 00:11:10,310 --> 00:11:07,050 what we learned on the 1b we transferred 227 00:11:12,199 --> 00:11:10,320 to the 5 so there's a difference back in 228 00:11:15,079 --> 00:11:12,209 that era the Germans are a little bit 229 00:11:19,759 --> 00:11:15,089 different in that regard they work their 230 00:11:23,389 --> 00:11:19,769 way out they they they were very strong 231 00:11:25,550 --> 00:11:23,399 about testing things and making sure the 232 00:11:28,069 --> 00:11:25,560 things were going to work sometimes to 233 00:11:31,160 --> 00:11:28,079 the thought that we they broke them in 234 00:11:32,780 --> 00:11:31,170 the process to find out so they they 235 00:11:37,850 --> 00:11:32,790 made sure things worked let's put it 236 00:11:42,139 --> 00:11:40,069 well you got to remember it was not the 237 00:11:45,739 --> 00:11:42,149 first Saturn five 238 00:11:47,359 --> 00:11:45,749 I mean Apollo eight went up and so there 239 00:11:48,829 --> 00:11:47,369 was a lot of confidence that it was 240 00:11:50,660 --> 00:11:48,839 going to work okay 241 00:11:53,139 --> 00:11:50,670 because a lot of testing had been done 242 00:11:54,949 --> 00:11:53,149 on it but still there was always 243 00:11:57,319 --> 00:11:54,959 apprehension you know you never know 244 00:11:58,400 --> 00:11:57,329 what's going to happen when you launch 245 00:12:01,309 --> 00:11:58,410 one of these birds 246 00:12:02,809 --> 00:12:01,319 nobody was worried that I know uh we 247 00:12:05,989 --> 00:12:02,819 were pretty confident that what we'd 248 00:12:08,780 --> 00:12:05,999 done was gonna work and it did it work 249 00:12:13,989 --> 00:12:08,790 for all of us matter of fact what made 250 00:12:17,539 --> 00:12:13,999 it work was the teamwork that developed 251 00:12:21,410 --> 00:12:17,549 and the understanding of who was 252 00:12:26,600 --> 00:12:21,420 responsible for what between Martha and 253 00:12:29,079 --> 00:12:26,610 the Cape and Houston okay and among the 254 00:12:31,100 --> 00:12:29,089 working people there was a lot of 255 00:12:35,379 --> 00:12:31,110 interactions and all this type of stuff 256 00:12:37,970 --> 00:12:35,389 okay it worked as a team it really did 257 00:12:43,220 --> 00:12:37,980 for example Houston did not have a 258 00:12:45,350 --> 00:12:43,230 counterpart to my division neither did 259 00:12:47,689 --> 00:12:45,360 the Cape for that matter we worked with 260 00:12:51,169 --> 00:12:47,699 him just like they were part of Marshall 261 00:12:53,840 --> 00:12:51,179 okay and I had complete free agency in 262 00:12:55,759 --> 00:12:53,850 that regard and then there were kind of 263 00:13:01,489 --> 00:12:55,769 interesting things that happened - for 264 00:13:04,400 --> 00:13:01,499 example we did not have the low level 265 00:13:08,059 --> 00:13:04,410 liftoff wind conditions that were going 266 00:13:12,259 --> 00:13:08,069 to encounter at the Cape other above 267 00:13:14,749 --> 00:13:12,269 about 50 feet or so so we put in a 500 268 00:13:18,530 --> 00:13:14,759 foot Tower down the 150 meters really 269 00:13:20,210 --> 00:13:18,540 but not a father anyway I had no 270 00:13:23,329 --> 00:13:20,220 problems whatsoever getting it approved 271 00:13:26,239 --> 00:13:23,339 to put in as a matter of fact once we 272 00:13:29,650 --> 00:13:26,249 got it put in talked to Deva see he had 273 00:13:31,879 --> 00:13:29,660 over Leicester keen on the guy that was 274 00:13:34,879 --> 00:13:31,889 responsible for making sure the tire got 275 00:13:36,379 --> 00:13:34,889 done right call me and say ask bill 276 00:13:39,229 --> 00:13:36,389 where he wants the other tower 277 00:13:42,199 --> 00:13:39,239 well we didn't need but one but that's 278 00:13:43,579 --> 00:13:42,209 but neither here no there we had the 279 00:13:45,499 --> 00:13:43,589 information we needed for the 280 00:13:47,120 --> 00:13:45,509 overturning moment calculations and all 281 00:13:49,130 --> 00:13:47,130 that liftoff on the pad 282 00:13:51,110 --> 00:13:49,140 that so we really want to worried about 283 00:13:53,090 --> 00:13:51,120 it same thing and moving it from the 284 00:13:56,990 --> 00:13:53,100 vertical Assembly Building out to the 285 00:13:59,450 --> 00:13:57,000 pad mm-hmm sitting on top of that well 286 00:14:01,670 --> 00:13:59,460 we had to do a lot of analysis of the 287 00:14:04,370 --> 00:14:01,680 data and everything and run for them to 288 00:14:07,990 --> 00:14:04,380 run it through their engineering 289 00:14:10,820 --> 00:14:08,000 calculations and we didn't just do it 290 00:14:13,610 --> 00:14:10,830 the inputs and hand them a piece of 291 00:14:16,580 --> 00:14:13,620 paper and walk away we worked with them 292 00:14:18,950 --> 00:14:16,590 so they would understand what it was 293 00:14:21,470 --> 00:14:18,960 that they were using and how we arrived 294 00:14:24,830 --> 00:14:21,480 at it that was important I think to note 295 00:14:26,630 --> 00:14:24,840 and for example when we when the 296 00:14:29,870 --> 00:14:26,640 vertical Assembly Building was going to 297 00:14:32,060 --> 00:14:29,880 be built the promise for that came out 298 00:14:34,400 --> 00:14:32,070 of my division there when load 299 00:14:36,620 --> 00:14:34,410 requirements believe it or not and when 300 00:14:40,040 --> 00:14:36,630 I gave the presentation down to Caitlin 301 00:14:42,560 --> 00:14:40,050 dr. Davis and I don't know 25 or 30 of 302 00:14:45,230 --> 00:14:42,570 his people we were talking about it and 303 00:14:48,470 --> 00:14:45,240 telling him how we had derived it and I 304 00:14:51,590 --> 00:14:48,480 told him it was a 99th percentile for 305 00:14:54,050 --> 00:14:51,600 the worst win month conditions for of 306 00:14:57,250 --> 00:14:54,060 the Cape that we used and I never will 307 00:14:59,330 --> 00:14:57,260 forget that services will beYOU that 308 00:15:01,130 --> 00:14:59,340 doctors good but I want it with a 309 00:15:04,430 --> 00:15:01,140 hundred percent confidence that it won't 310 00:15:06,140 --> 00:15:04,440 be exceeded well technically speaking 311 00:15:09,440 --> 00:15:06,150 from a statistical point of view that 312 00:15:12,050 --> 00:15:09,450 you you can't you can't do that and I 313 00:15:15,470 --> 00:15:12,060 never will forget I looked up and I said 314 00:15:19,550 --> 00:15:15,480 how am I going to explain this to her 315 00:15:22,700 --> 00:15:19,560 he'll grasp it and I said dr. Davis I'll 316 00:15:24,620 --> 00:15:22,710 tell you your house will be gone before 317 00:15:26,660 --> 00:15:24,630 the vertical Assembly Building will I 318 00:15:28,370 --> 00:15:26,670 never will forget he looked at me he 319 00:15:31,340 --> 00:15:28,380 says dust is good we will go ahead now 320 00:15:36,110 --> 00:15:31,350 and so there was interesting things like 321 00:15:39,580 --> 00:15:36,120 that too made decisions got made of a 322 00:15:43,939 --> 00:15:39,590 very very major technical factor 323 00:15:45,679 --> 00:15:43,949 nowadays everybody's gotta come 324 00:15:47,840 --> 00:15:45,689 and I pad in front of them and a 325 00:15:51,530 --> 00:15:47,850 computer running and they run the stuff 326 00:15:54,410 --> 00:15:51,540 dozens and dozens of time back then we 327 00:15:57,169 --> 00:15:54,420 did not we had to take what we did over 328 00:15:58,759 --> 00:15:57,179 to the comp Lev and they ran it and they 329 00:16:01,429 --> 00:15:58,769 would call and tell us to come get her 330 00:16:04,669 --> 00:16:01,439 output so you thought your way through 331 00:16:10,300 --> 00:16:04,679 what you were doing very carefully 332 00:16:15,100 --> 00:16:13,120 there was a good team relationship and 333 00:16:16,269 --> 00:16:15,110 von braun created that i don't want to 334 00:16:19,330 --> 00:16:16,279 make it sound like he walked on water 335 00:16:22,030 --> 00:16:19,340 okay he was just like we all are I've 336 00:16:24,970 --> 00:16:22,040 said in many meetings were decisions 337 00:16:26,769 --> 00:16:24,980 were being made okay and he made most 338 00:16:30,100 --> 00:16:26,779 all your technical decisions of any 339 00:16:32,410 --> 00:16:30,110 consequence and if you were presenting 340 00:16:34,630 --> 00:16:32,420 from one point of view and you from 341 00:16:36,880 --> 00:16:34,640 another point of view he'd listened to 342 00:16:39,790 --> 00:16:36,890 both points of view I need ask you 343 00:16:42,880 --> 00:16:39,800 questions and everything okay now he 344 00:16:46,740 --> 00:16:42,890 might decide to go with your point of 345 00:16:49,360 --> 00:16:46,750 view carried okay but you were still 346 00:16:51,070 --> 00:16:49,370 free agent to go back to the lab and 347 00:16:51,790 --> 00:16:51,080 then whatnot and try to answer his 348 00:16:54,310 --> 00:16:51,800 questions 349 00:16:57,550 --> 00:16:54,320 and go through it and if you thought you 350 00:16:59,500 --> 00:16:57,560 had he would be put in and he would 351 00:17:02,800 --> 00:16:59,510 reconvene the meeting and go and go back 352 00:17:06,189 --> 00:17:02,810 over it and he might change his mind but 353 00:17:08,020 --> 00:17:06,199 there was none of this well I don't 354 00:17:10,420 --> 00:17:08,030 understand why he did that everybody 355 00:17:13,240 --> 00:17:10,430 took it and went forward all righty 356 00:17:21,240 --> 00:17:13,250 the idea was to make sure we did not 357 00:17:28,590 --> 00:17:24,030 I played deuces out at the Space and 358 00:17:30,300 --> 00:17:28,600 Rocket Center and it's interesting to 359 00:17:33,870 --> 00:17:30,310 talk to people from all over the world 360 00:17:36,660 --> 00:17:33,880 they have a tremendous admiration and 361 00:17:39,780 --> 00:17:36,670 I'm not joking because it gets played on 362 00:17:41,550 --> 00:17:39,790 us because we're there and it's just 363 00:17:44,910 --> 00:17:41,560 interesting to talk to the people they 364 00:17:46,500 --> 00:17:44,920 really do have a tremendous and they'll 365 00:17:49,350 --> 00:17:46,510 tell you so as a matter of fact 366 00:17:51,150 --> 00:17:49,360 admiration even though personally the 367 00:17:54,620 --> 00:17:51,160 individual they're talking to me I may 368 00:17:57,690 --> 00:17:54,630 or may not he represents what NASA did